From Burger King to Michelin Star: The BRUTAL Truth About Success with Byron Gomez

TRANSCRIPT

Kirk Bachmann: Hi everyone, my name is Kirk Bachmann, and welcome back to The Ultimate Dish. Today, we are thrilled – and he’s right down the road – to welcome Chef Byron Gomez, the executive chef and head of BRUTØ, Denver’s Michelin-starred and Green restaurant that’s redefining what fine dining can be.

Byron’s story is one of incredible perseverance and passion. Born in Costa Rica, he migrated to the United States when he was just 8 years old and is a proud DACA recipient.

His culinary journey started at age 15 with his first job at Burger King, but his sights were set much higher. Without formal culinary school training, Byron worked his way up through some of the country’s most prestigious kitchens, learning from culinary luminaries such as Daniel Boulud, Ronny Emborg, Gavin Kaysen, and Daniel Humm.

While working at Eleven Madison Park — named the World’s Best Restaurant in 2017 — Byron traveled with the restaurant’s pop-up experiences to the Hamptons and Aspen. After falling in love with the Rocky Mountains – I can understand that! – he planted his roots in Colorado, first at 7908 Aspen, then opening his own Costa Rican concept, Pollo Tico, right here in Boulder. Byron also competed on Season 18 of Bravo’s Top Chef, filmed during the pandemic in Portland, Oregon.

In 2024, Byron took the helm at BRUTØ, the 18-seat chef’s counter restaurant in Denver’s Dairy Block, where he’s maintained the restaurant’s Michelin Star and Green Star for sustainability. Under his direction, BRUTØ has become a beacon of zero-waste cooking and brutal honesty in ingredients, making Byron the first Costa Rican chef to receive a Michelin Star. This year, he was also named to Food Network’s Hot List as one of the country’s most exciting culinary personalities.

Get ready for a conversation about brutal ism in food, the power of fermentation, and what it means to succeed against all odds as an immigrant chef in America.

And there he is. I’m out of breath but super, super excited to see you, chef. How are you doing?

Byron Gomez: Man, I need to carry you around when I’m feeling down! What a hype, man! What an intro!

The Universe Aligns

Kirk Bachmann: What a hype! Oh my gosh. We got you up early. You were probably rocking the line late last night. We’re so, so excited to have you here. I was looking this up this morning, chef. We had Kelly Whitaker on the show last year. He spoke so highly of you, by the way. His episode aired exactly one day short of a year ago.

Byron Gomez: What?!

Kirk Bachmann: September 3. That was totally serendipitous. I’m going to take total credit for that. I’ll text Kelly and I’m like, “Guess what, dude?”

Byron Gomez: I guess the universe has aligned when it comes to that. The same thing I speak about Kelly. The partnership that we have embarked on with me being at BRUTØ. When I first took over, I didn’t know that a year later or so, a couple of months later, he was going to be Restaurateur by James Beard. Crazy! It just goes to show you when things fit, it’s great. That’s the relationship that him and I have. It started out as a friendship, and it’s still very much based on a friendship relationship. We feed off of each other, ideation when it comes to executing things. [It feels like we’re working with each other. We’re not working for each other; we’re working with each other.]

Shout out to Kelly. Everything that he’s doing has been very inspiring to this point in my career. We both have allowed ourselves to give each other a platform to speak up on what really matters to us and have these kind of restaurants and restaurant group in which we believe in the forefront of what restaurants could be, not only on the sense of serving our guests, but also on the net positive part of the business and staffing as well. Kudos to Kelly.

Also – and this is cool. I feel such an honor.

Kirk Bachmann: This is so great. I love that. Not on the script at all. It’s so genuine. I could tell the minute you popped on camera that we were going to have a good time today. And shout out to Erika, too. I always laugh about it because [as] I was telling you earlier: listen, Basta got a lot of people through the pandemic. They just problem-solved. They figured out how to take care of people. Dry Storage right around the corner. I was telling you: my wife walks in and the people go crazy because they know she’s going to spend a lot of money.

Byron Gomez: Definitely on the taking [care] of people part, she’s very good at it. I’ll just text her. “I’m looking for this kind of rock. Or I’m looking for a slate.” She goes to a mason, and she checks, “Is this the size that you need?” Just so I can put something on a plate instead of a plate.

Kirk Bachmann: Isn’t it amazing?

Byron Gomez: She’s there for that. We pick up the phone, and it’s really awesome to have that kind of relationship. And support! Because I’m always thinking about the food and how to make the guest experience better. She’s the type of person that I can go to to find those little solutions of decorating and art and things like that. Shout out to Erika as well.

Brutalism in a Bowl

Kirk Bachmann: I love how you think like that. Ironically – again, not on the script. I don’t know how you are, chef, but as a chef and an educator for a lot of years, my initial path was going to be an architect. I just couldn’t draw. I could conceptualize it, but it just didn’t make it to the paper. When I went to college, I lived with three architect majors at the University of Oregon. I’m just obsessed with architecture. If we go back in history and we think about Carême before Escoffier, and how architecture was such a big part of great pastry chefs’ mindsets, but I was looking up online. I didn’t realize that a firm called Regular Architecture was responsible for your restaurant, for BRUTØ, but also Sap Sua, Dry Storage, Beckon. The list goes on and on and on. Off script. I’m just fascinated by it. Is there something about how you approach food that you want to be projected in the ambiance around your guests as well?

Byron Gomez: Yeah. With BRUTØ it was a sense of adjustment. The place was already there when I came along, but it was tapping into what Kelly and I envisioned what the place would be like. What is brutalism? What is a brutalist approach to this space? Something as raw, [primal] cooking – wood fire – that is the heart, the engine. If you go to our space, we don’t have gas stoves. We don’t have fryers. We don’t have RATIONAL [combi] ovens. We don’t have none of that stuff. Literally, everything comes out of our hearth oven. If you look at our experience with eleven courses, or this menu is going to be ten courses, you ask yourself, “How do they do all this? Is there another prep kitchen elsewhere?”

It starts with that. Taking those elements of the stone finish to the hearth oven, it’s very rough. It’s concrete, very rough. When I started seeing all those things, I started working with a local potter named Kazu [Oba], the shop is called [O’baware]. I went to Red Rocks and I saw a concert. I went a couple days later and spent a couple Sundays with Kazu ideating this bowl. I told him, “I want a bowl that’s not like any other bowl.”

He was like, “Okay, what do you mean?’

I was like, “I want it standing sideways.”

Kirk Bachmann: I saw it. You can see it online. It’s beautiful.

Byron Gomez: He had never done anything like that. That, to me, is the concrete brutalism of building the guest experience. That came by nature, by my surroundings at Red Rock, something so iconic. We started serving our dessert in that. The story was that, growing up, when you grow up in a house full of kids, you’re fighting for dessert. You’re throwing elbows. “Get away! This is my ice cream.” That’s how I felt at Red Rocks. It was an amphitheater. It was designed for everybody, but it felt like such a personal thing. I felt like I was the only one there.

One of the first concerts I ever went to, one of my childhood inspiration idols, was Nas, the rapper Nas. Nas was playing with the Colorado Symphony. What? Hip hop symphony at Red Rock? It was like an out-of-body experience, and that’s what I wanted to express with BRUTØ and making this one bowl. But at the concrete level, how do we make guests feel like they’re getting a Michelin experience – Michelin is new to Colorado – but we don’t want to feel stuffy. We’re not white tablecloth. We’re not your traditional shaped truffles or foie gras because of the sustainability aspect of it. Whatever it is. I believe that is where the brutalist ideation started.

And it goes with architecture. You build something. You start building it with a good foundation. Then you can build on top of it whatever you want. If you look at a building, if you look at architecture, if you look at brutalist architecture when we’re talking about it, it’s pretty eh. You know. Gray. Angles. Very cold. But at the core, it’s something that will stand any kind of time, weather. Whatever you go through.

Kirk Bachmann: It’s evergreen.

Byron Gomez: That concrete, that’s what we based brutalist with BRUTØ with that concrete feeling of hospitality to our guests.

Music at BRUTØ

Kirk Bachmann: So well said. We’re going to revisit that in a bit here. We should just call this episode “Chills” because I’m getting chills. You can see behind me. Music is a big part of many chef’s lives. I’ve got your basic Dave Matthews, Fleetwood Mac, Bob Seger and all those guys up there. I was going to save this for later, but is music a big part of your life as well?

Byron Gomez: Growing up, I grew up in church. I’m still a big believer of God and things like that. Part of being in church, I was part of the music department. I started with line percussion, that rhythm within me, the drum. I play the bongos, the congas, and the timbales. Timbales not as much, but definitely the congas. Eventually I went on to tenor saxophone, self-teaching myself. I picked up a tenor saxophone. I was teaching myself and playing in church.

I’ve always been a creative part of it. I believe everybody has the ability to be a creator. You see the world out there. Somebody created the phone. Somebody created a chair that we sit in, a bench to wait for the bus. I think that’s what brings fulfillment to people’s lives. When you start shutting down that creativity, that’s when we struggle. I’ve been very lucky to tap into that creativity, whether it was through music, or even at BRUTØ. Some of our playlists we have curated in the sense of not being so lyrical, but being more tempo-like. Being more instrumental because we just want that to be the backdrop while you’re eating. Your attention in the show. You’re in the arena. Your attention is every bite, the element of surprise. Eventually, if you’re overstimulated with that, you sit back and you hear a beat or a drum. A tempo. Then you’re back at it.

Music is a big part of what I do.

Kirk Bachmann: So well said. None of this, ladies and gentleman, is on script. This is all just off the cuff. That’s the way Chef wanted to do it. Thank you for that.

I told you that I dined at BRUTØ before you arrived. I remember the bison. I remember the scallops, and I remember the curried ice cream, which I had never had before in my life. I don’t really remember the music. I guess thumbs up; it was all about the food for me.

I do have to tell you a really, really quick story. I’m old. You talk about Red Rocks and how beautiful it is. I want to say this was 1990. My favorite band of all time is U2. Always has been. They were going to play in Red Rocks the next night. I showed up a day early with a friend. We drove up to Red Rocks just to see it. They were rehearsing there.

Byron Gomez: Wow.

Each One, Teach One

Kirk Bachmann: I think that was Sunday. Bloody Sunday. Rattle and Hum was right after that. Sunday, Bloody Sunday. It’s when Bono’s hair was long, and he wore white shirts, and the wind was blowing. We sat there. We just sat there and watched them rehearse until they kicked us out. I forgot all about that. What a great memory! Unbelievable.

I do have to send a shout out. We talked about it earlier. Ethan is working with you guys over at BRUTØ. We’re not going to grade him today, but I just want to say thank you for recognizing some of our students. They get really excited about certain places: all of Kelly’s restaurants, Bobby Stuckey’s restaurants. We have really deep conversations with people about that sort of commitment. More than anything – not to call Ethan out – but thank you for giving Ethan a shot.

Byron Gomez: This year when we’re going through a big transition at BRUTØ right now. The ball never stops rolling. What else can we do? What else can we do? Part of it was I asked the staff and my guys, “We’ve never had an internship program here, an externship program. Let’s take one of the schools around here.” Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Johnson & Wales was here at one point. It had a campus, I think, in Denver.

Kirk Bachmann: They did.

Byron Gomez: The other one that has stuck around were you guys, Escoffier. I’m big on mentorship. I’m big on the philosophy of “each one, teach one.” Not only in the sense of the cooks holding accountability – whoever is the hearth cook, whoever is the lead cook – is going to teach the garde manger cook the ways because he’s been through that. I believe that’s how I like to structuralize a team. That’s when hierarchy makes sense. Already been through it. Already know what it is this season, how the set up is. Let me teach you. You’re already instilling that leadership and that trust as team members from the cook’s perspective. Forget about the sous chefs or the executive chef kind of thing. You don’t have to micromanage; you still have to [oversee] quality and all that stuff.

Getting somebody like Ethan has been really refreshing for the team not only in the amount they could express themselves towards him and teach him and build a relationship, but also for Ethan. For the opportunity to see what a real restaurant is like. Especially BRUTØ. BRUTØ is just so different than any other real restaurants because of the lack of equipment that we have. We embrace all of that. We love all of that. We wouldn’t change a thing. To teach somebody how to be resourceful. “I can’t have a pot that’s going to take there and I’m going to forget about because somebody else needs that burner.” It’s an induction burner. It’s not even a real burner. It’s an electrical burning. It’s more than cooking; it’s also the culture and the time management, and all those things. Having Ethan has been really amazing, and I look forward to continuing this relationship with Escoffier and BRUTØ.

Kirk Bachmann: That’s awesome. I’m going to totally steal “each one, teach one.” That’s absolutely beautiful, chef. I love that. We’ve got to get T-shirts made.

Over your shoulder, the blue book, is that Gavin’s? I can’t see that far.

Byron Gomez: No. I have D.O.M, who is Alex Atala. I have Homaro Cantu, who passed away. Amazing chef.

Kirk Bachmann: Good friend of mine. Way ahead of his time.

Byron Gomez: Christopher Kostow from Napa Valley. Legend. Au Coeour de Savoir by chef Frédéric Bau, a French chef of pastry. So on and so forth. One of my favorites, Diego Guerrero of the DSTAgE in Spain. The French Laundry. Boragó in Chile. That’s just one of – and the French Laundry.

Then, I have a whole bunch back there. I never went to culinary school, so that was part of my culinary school. I took my resources. I remember, I would leave my home on my days off from Harlem, take the One train to Seventh Avenue and Fourteenth Street, and I would walk over to Union Station. There was a big Barnes & Noble there. It’s still around, which is really awesome. Every time I go back home to New York, I always try to visit that Barnes & Noble because I see myself sitting down, grabbing a pile of books, and spending three lattes later, five hours after I sat down, I feel satisfied. I went through a lot of cookbooks. I got ideas. That’s how I started traveling the world through cooking and books.

It’s such a beautiful thing that they last for so long. I have some of my chef friends. My friends come over, and they’re like, “Oh my God! You can’t even get that book anymore.” I have a book from Mark Best, “Marque.” I was looking through that book the other day, and it’s like a thousand dollars. Wow! That’s crazy. These are my treasures that I carry everywhere.

Kirk Bachmann: I love it. I love it. I love it. Always learning, always discovering.

Byron Gomez: I always want to be a student of this craft. I’m at a point where I teach a lot, but I always want to be a student. I always want to be curious. There’s always a trend. What is it? To me, right now, I’m geeking out on the sustainability part of it, the preservation thing of it. Techniques. El Bulli did amazing. Then followed by the Fat Duck. After that was Alinea, but that trend, people aren’t really wowed by the effects, by the theatrics anymore. People, now, really want to know the story of where it came from. What is the source of origin? How did it get here? Who’s grandma was doing this and you brought it back here? I think people want to be connected to that foundation of where it came from.

Sustainability is something that will help us in the future, but also preservation and fermentation is something that sometimes we have forgotten. And me, fine dining, like you were talking about earlier, the refining of fine dining, what we do at BRUTØ, is part of that fermentation. It’s healthy. It’s good for your gut, but it also tells a story through time.

Kirk Bachmann: The notes that I’m jotting to myself are we’ve got to get Chef to campus in front of students ASAP. ASAP! That’s another conversation, but I’ve got to get you down to Boulder as soon as possible. That’s the inspiration. Some students need pull. Some need push. It’s all rooted in inspiration. I love that you used the word “craft.” This is a craft. It starts right here in the heart.

I really wanted to start – I’m finally going to get to some questions that we thought about.

Byron Gomez: The intro! Oh my gosh!

Know the Story

Kirk Bachmann: That was just the intro. We’re just getting to know each other. It’s such a powerful story, and words don’t do it justice. I want to do the disclaimer that from Top Chef to all of these amazing restaurants where you’ve worked and your success now in Colorado – some people just dream of going to Aspen – I just want to always have that disclosure that there was so much work behind the scenes over the years that people don’t always see. Jump on the podcast, you’re effervescent and friendly and smiling, but there is so much work in the DNA and in your history. I just want to respectfully recognize that as people and students listen to your story. There’s work involved with that.

Byron Gomez: To put it into perspective, I’ve been cooking for 23 years of my life. I want to say it’s been 20 years of none of this. No one even knew I existed besides my workmates. It’s in the past three years that there has been some sort of recognition. You wouldn’t put it at 20 years for a three-year return, and not even knowing if the three-year return, how sustainable that’s going to be, how long that’s going to take. You ride the wave.

That’s a big thing that I say. Everybody sees the glory, but they don’t know the story. There were many times that I wouldn’t have a day off for six or seven months. I remember one time that there were six or seven months that I wouldn’t have a day off because my only day off, I would go and stage at another restaurant, or learn pastry from one of Daniel Boulud’s chefs in their kitchen.

So I wouldn’t have a day off for a few reasons. One was because we were so broke as line cook salary in New York City. Thank God that has changed. That hardship was able to push me because if I didn’t stage that day, I wouldn’t eat. I knew if I staged, I would get family meal. That would be the only meal that I would get. So I would work for my meal.

But also, I would network. If I helped out the line cook, the garde manger, the meat roast, I would bust my butt. At the end of the night, he would invite me out for a beer or to hang out with the team. I would network. I would be the guy, “Oh, you’re pretty good.” That will open doors for me later on when I would go to these kitchens. Eleven Madison Park.

I remember when I worked at Eleven Madison Park, there were about four cooks who knew who I was. The sous chef came up to me. “Who are you?”

I was like, “I don’t know, dude. I just want a job here. I don’t want to get the attention.” But that just helped. I was out of work.

Like I was saying: everybody sees the glory but they don’t know the story. They don’t know that I would go hungry. They don’t know that I wouldn’t have a day off. But those 20 years I would never change because it has given me a platform now where I’m able to have the opportunity, the privilege, to influence other people and have this kind of outlet, like you guys have provided.

An Immigrant Family

Kirk Bachmann: So well said. Thank you for that, chef.

Let’s go before the 20 years. A powerful story. You’re a DACA recipient. Your journey from that first job at Burger King. We all started somewhere! Mine was Kentucky Friend Chicken. My father is a master pastry chef, but he believed it was important for me to work for others. In high school, it was Kentucky Fried Chicken and Pizza Hut. Then I was able to withstand my dad’s kitchen.

Being the first Costa Rican chef with a Michelin star is absolutely remarkable. I won’t even leave it there. Just for anyone to have a Michelin star is remarkable.

Can you tell us a little bit about your journey to the United States as a young boy, and how that shaped your perspective on food and opportunity? Was it a grandma? Was it parents? Was it a sister? Was it an uncle? What drove that passion, and was there a moment, chef, that you knew, “this is what I’m destined to do?”

Byron Gomez: Yeah. I still suffer from imposter syndrome. It’s crazy! Wait, what? I think a lot of successful people suffer from imposter syndrome. Are they doing the right thing? Those trailblazers who are the first ones up. There’s no map. There’s no guideline.

That started at a very young age. Growing up in Costa Rica, on Sunday’s my uncle would pick up my cousins, my uncles, my aunts, and they would all come to my grandma’s house where me and my family used to live. My dad and my mom and my two sisters. Sundays was the day of just family. Very traditional in America, old-school type of thing. The kids would play in the backyard, would play soccer, would play tag, hide-and-go-seek, all these games. The guys would be in the living room watching the local soccer league that started at 11 a.m., all the soccer games. The women would be in the kitchen just yapping away with their dull knives and their homemade aprons, just talking, gossiping, about anything and everything.

That sense of comfort and family was so nourishing, was so warm, was so beautiful. I would sneak into the kitchen, and my grandma would take a bunch of cilantro and just tear it with her hands. That crunch that you hear when you tear that. Somebody else would be squeezing limes. That aroma of those oils just penetrating into the atmosphere and the air. Things like that. Under the table, my aunt would give me little snacks. Then my grandma and my mom would be like, “Get out of here!” It was very cultural Latin America. Old-school. The guys don’t belong in the kitchen. This is a “women-only” kind of thing. That was my life growing up. I didn’t know any different. I was very blessed. We didn’t grow up high income or anything like that, but I didn’t know that. That innocence was beautiful.

When I came to the United States, I arrived to JFK on a cold March night where it was raining but wet, wet snow. My dad, once we got to baggage claim, he gave me a coat. I had never seen a coat in my life. I’d never seen a winter coat. I grew up in Costa Rica, tropical. I was like, “Wow!” Metaphorically speaking, I felt how heavy it was. That’s when this heavy lift of what my life was going to be here in the U.S. was going to be. “Here you go. You have no other option. Either you warm yourself up and fight, or you get left behind.” The doors opened to go to the car, and it was this bone-chilling wind of slushy rain. It was a really rude awakening [compared] to what my Sundays were like in Costa Rica.

There were no more Sundays. It was just my parents at that time. They lived in a basement of a household in Brentwood, Long Island. The family upstairs was from Ecuador, had two daughters. My parents would leave for work. They were working two factory jobs making – I think the last I asked my mom about a month ago, they were making like $4.95 an hour. They were working two factory jobs. Two eight-hour shifts.

Some people would be like, “Oh my God, that’s so irresponsible for parents.” But they had no choice but to leave us alone in the basement with instructions on how to heat up hot dogs and microwave leftovers. We would watch television in English. We would watch Nickelodeon. We didn’t know what Blues Clues was or Rocko’s Modern Life back in the day, or any of these shows. We didn’t know what these were. During the day, we would just be under the fluorescent lights all day and most of the night.

We arrived in March. By the time summer break came around, June, July, August, the kids upstairs would be playing in the backyard. I remember, I would climb up my basement window. It was a small little window. Maybe three feet by two, something like that. I would just look up because I couldn’t go outside. I would look at them play. That would mess with you psychologically in a way. No child should be able to experience that. Again, everybody sees the glory, but nobody knows the story.

Eventually, my mom decided, “We can’t do this anymore.” My dad was working the two jobs. My mom only had one job. Then she babysat us. That’s when the journey really started with home-cooked meals. My mom. There would be this thing called sopa negra in Costa Rica. It’s the broth, the juices that they’re cooking the beans. All the leftover cooking liquids, she would heat up tortillas, and sometimes that would be our dinner. Little did I know that I would work so hard that eventually when I brought my dad and my mom to the first Michelin experience, Cafe Boulud when I was working, they broke down crying. They didn’t realize that they’d never tasted foie gras. They never tasted caviar. None of this stuff. It was just so foreign to them.

But that’s the kind of household I grew up in. They were beautiful parents. Something had to die for something else to live. They’re dreams, they’re aspirations, when they were thirty and forty years old, they decided to move to a country not knowing the language, not knowing the culture, not knowing anything, to raise kids so I could have what I have today. It was because some of their stuff had to die so I could live and be exalted.

So I’m forever grateful to my parents, and for instilling in us that home responsibility of accountability. Work hard. Do good. Be kind. Love God. Respect each other. Life sucks. Get used to it. It’s not going to work out your way. Are you going to sit there and pout, or are you going to make ends meet? We’ll figure it out. That’s the kind of ethos I grew up on before becoming into the Michelin world.

A Spirit of Kaizen

Kirk Bachmann: Thank you for your genuine humility and transparency and vulnerability. I love that you mentioned kindness. Kindness goes a long, long way.

Chef, you’ve said that “success does not regard the end goal, but the process of how you get there.” Exactly what you were just explaining. The harder the journey, the stronger that you will become. It’s clear that that philosophy, that background, has guided you throughout your career. How did you navigate working your way up not only through New York’s elite restaurants, but the world’s elite restaurants?

Byron Gomez: Literally.

Kirk Bachmann: If you’re able to share…Daniel Boulud. Daniel Humm. What did you take from each of them?

Byron Gomez: Was this the end goal that I had? Is today the end goal? Absolutely not. It really wasn’t. I didn’t know. I’m very blessed. Sometimes, I don’t even know how to figure it out. I have so much going on that there’s a PR person that handles things like connecting us. I have a talent agent. I have to bring all these people to manage my schedule because it’s getting to be so much on top of being the chef at BRUTØ and [spearheading] this ideology of new fine dining, what brutalism is. There’s a lot on my plate. I didn’t know what that took at that time.

What I did know? Let’s trace it back ten or fifteen years when I was on the line with Daniel Boulud and Daniel Humm and Ronny Emborg and Gavin Kaysen. It was that I just wanted to be one degree better today than I was yesterday. Take it a day at a time. There’s a philosophy in Japanese culture called kaizen. Kaizen ideology is so core to everything that I do because it has to be intentional, and we just have to get better one percent each day.

When I was a cook, let’s say I was on the entremetier station, and I had to cut chives. Okay. Is my knife sharp? Tomorrow it will be sharper. Are my knife cuts on point? Tomorrow, they’ll be better. Is my timing lessened from two days ago or three days ago? Yes. So giving myself those little challenges, setting up those systems, was so important to the development of who I am now.

Unfortunately, us as humans, we focus on the goal. That’s when I say the journey because the journey is going to get you to that goal. Metaphorically – no. Let’s say literally. Here in Colorado, we go climb up a mountain. When we get to the top, the finish line of the fourteener and we have our cardboard sign, “I climbed Mt. Evans fourteener,” that is Rent-a-Space. You can only be on the top for this amount of time because of the weather. Because it’s getting dark. You have to come back down because it’s getting cold. You’re exposed to the elements. What took the longest was that morning hike to get to that mid-afternoon peak. Those hours we don’t consider. That’s where the improvement is. That’s where a lot of the mental push is, a lot of the physical straining is. Thinking about, “I need to hydrate. I need to stop and eat.” We focus on the goal, but the goal is so short-lived that we have it backwards. That’s why we have to enjoy the journey. We have to enjoy the valleys. We have to enjoy the mountain climbing because the top, not everybody is going to be at the top at all times. You have to put in the work. You have to train for it. You have to work the long hours.

Again, I was doing this just so I could be better. So that person that was behind me doesn’t take my position, just so I could move on to the next position. I would go into a kitchen. In every kitchen, there’s always the strongest cook. There’s always the cook that has been there the longest, that knows the most, that could execute better. I always gave myself a goal: within six to twelve months, I want to take your job. I’m here to take your job. There’s a purpose that I’m here. I’m not here just for a paycheck or to see what the trend is. I’m here to invest in my future.

Whatever that future is, I don’t have control over that. I have control over how I present my attitude today. Tomorrow, we’ll figure that out. I had a bad service? Man, that sucked. I went out with my buddies. How can I make it better? I’m vulnerable. I’m lacking in this. Can you help me out on this? Cool. Tomorrow, another day. Let’s go.

A Perspective on Immigration

Kirk Bachmann: Yep. Great advice. Great advice.

Chef, being a DACA recipient in such a high profile industry that we live in, there are unique challenges and opportunities. What would you want people to most understand about the contributions that immigrants can make to America’s food landscape, much like you have?

Byron Gomez: Excellent. This is the question that [I get] nowadays.

Kirk Bachmann: You’re chomping on this one. Okay.

Byron Gomez: Let’s just clearly state that I am one hundred percent not in agreement with illegal immigration. I am always supportive of legal immigration. My country, Costa Rica, has been in this battle with Nicaragua, Panama, now Colombia, for decades. Costa Ricans don’t want illegal immigrants to take advantage of everything the government is supposed to help citizens of that country to take advantage. Whether it is crime, whether it is benefits, because it’s less for the people that actually need it and belong there.

I myself, I find myself in defense of both sides. When DACA was presented to me in 2015, I decided to take it because I had no other outlet. I was going into the workforce. I’d been here as a young kid. I was here as a teenager. I graduated high school. I was entering the workforce, yet I didn’t have a license which hindered me from getting a bank account. Which hindered me from establishing credit. Which hindered me from possibly buying a house. Already, those steps hindered me just from not having a Social Security Number.

When DACA came around, I jumped on it. I gave it a two-year study and research. I told all my friends. “You go first because I don’t know if this is going to be an entrapment or some sort of trap. They know all the information, and then they’re going to get us, and then they’re going to deport us.” That’s the kind of mentality of survival. Survival in these immigrant communities because of persecution. Deep down, we’re not doing the right thing. We didn’t enter here the right way. But I didn’t know that.

Then I took advantage of those programs. I took advantage of all that. Eventually, I’m realizing “This is not sustainable.” Every two years we need to renew our permits. Fast forward ten years, twelve years, how DACA has been around. We are the product of that system. We are the chefs that are here in the United States. Yes, it can be said, “You’re the first Costa Rican chef that has the Michelin star through BRUTØ.” I wasn’t offered that in Costa Rica. I was offered that here in the United States, the land of opportunity.

Many friends of mine who are DACA recipients are doctors, are lawyers, who are curing, who are basing the law representing people here in the United States. What we’re saying, I think we deserve to be integrating into this community. There’s no illegal immigrant that wants to be here illegally. There really isn’t. And our industry, the service industry, the hospitality industry, is getting hit a lot.

Should there be better reform? Should there be a better system? Should there be a better way? Should they honor people who have paid their dues, who have paid their taxes, who are contributing to the society? I think we want those people. I don’t want a rude and bad guest in my dining room. I will tolerate it. I will tell them, “Hey, you need to behave. Hey, can you tone it down? Hey, don’t do this.” Eventually, I’m going to be like, “Get out.”

So I think that’s where we’re at right now, politically speaking, as much as I don’t like to talk about this. But what I’m glad that’s happening is, finally, things have been getting swept under the rug for so many decades about this whole immigration system. We know it. We just turn the eye [away]. “We need that force. We don’t want to pay them a lot, but we need that force.” Now, things have walked into the room. The light has been turned on. It has shone a light to this issue. I really have faith that things are going to work out for the better, or things are going to have a resolution. Whether that favors one person or another person, I don’t know. But finally, we’re talking about it as a nation, which we haven’t talked about it as a nation. Together. Finally we’re doing things together, even though we disagree. Even though media and things play out differently.

I, myself, I’m a DACA recipient who came here legally on a visa, overstayed my visa, wanted to be integrated into this community, yet I don’t feel persecuted in today’s America. We employ Americans. I pay my taxes, no criminal record, contribute to this society, yet I don’t feel persecuted. I can walk around the streets. People know me. People know me because of my social media, because of my platform, my notoriety, they know where I’m at. If these agents really want to come and get me, they know where I’m at. They know what I’m doing. They know where I live. They know where I work, yet I don’t have that fear because I’m trying to do things the right way.

I’m trying to educate people and say, “Educate yourself on what DACA is. We’re not all bad. The nets have been cast. They’re reeling all the fish, and I surely believe we’re going to start sorting things out. Once we start sorting things out, we get rid of the bad catch, and we just keep the good ones.” We’re finally having these conversations.

Kirk Bachmann: If I could just say – I know it’s not always easy. Thank you. Your articulate narrative is really beautiful. I wrote down three things when I heard you talking about your story, how reflective you are and how understanding you are of the situation that we are in. I felt like you speak with grace.

Byron Gomez: Thank you.

Kirk Bachmann: You talk about trust, and you approach everything with respect. Thank you for that. That’s what’s beautiful about our industry. That’s what’s beautiful about you. I’m getting a little emotional because my parents are immigrants, as well. Some things have changed, but some things have not. My parents spoke of opportunity. They spoke of freedom much like you did. Thank you for that. My dad’s going to love this episode.

Byron Gomez: Shout out to Dad!

Talking about BRUTØ

Kirk Bachmann: Let’s talk about BRUTØ. Kelly and Erika, they’re hanging on the edge of their seats. Let’s talk about BRUTØ. Fascinating concept. I grew up in my father’s kitchen. I’ve been around culinary education for over 30 years. I just celebrated my 63rd birthday yesterday. I’ve been doing this a lot. I have not sat down and talked with anyone about this concept of brutalism. I’ve seen it referred to in the world of architecture, which I mentioned before, which gives me a little bit of a base. When most people think of brutalism, they think of what you said earlier: this stark architecture. Concrete – I think you used that word. But you have embraced through your story of the bowl – everyone needs to get online and look at that bowl. It’s on Chef’s Instagram. It’s beautiful with the beautiful dessert just presented so [beautifully]. Now I’m always going to think of it differently. I’m always going to think of it as Red Rocks.

Byron Gomez: Awesome! That’s a concrete memory. That’s a brutalist memory.

Kirk Bachmann: It is. Tell me, chef, let’s talk about brutalism. What does it mean in the context of food.? You touched on it a little bit. How do you translate that raw, unadorned beauty or philosophy into either a ten- or an eleven-course tasting menu? That’s a lot of pressure on you.

Byron Gomez: It is. I’ve got to say that everyone, from the time I took over, everyone who has worked at BRUTØ and is currently working at BRUTØ has been part of that story. I don’t want to take credit just for me because, as hard as it is, I make it hard because of the experience I have, but also because of the responsibility that we have to tell this message. The responsibility that we have as cooks to inspire others, to inspire the other generation. Otherwise, what is going to be our legacy left behind? How is this restaurant going to be remembered?

It started with just being aware of our environment. Cool. I have no stoves. I have no ovens. I have no fryers. I only have a hearth oven, and it’s not a hearth oven that can be low, medium or high. No. It’s fire. You have to tame it. There’s forest fires that professional firefighters come from around the country to tame these fires. It’s an element that has been here before us and is going to be here way past us that has really revolutionized what cooking is.

How do we tame a massive beast? That’s where the fine dining technique comes into it in how I prescribe the brutalist. A lot of restaurants nowadays have adapted to the open kitchen mentality. Pass or pass, par mida, the set up. Brutalism, we’re not hiding anything. You’re seeing everything in its raw element. You’re seeing the cooks cook in front of you, cleaning, setting up, timing the courses. You’re seeing how the bar and the person – the expo – are coordinating, foreshadowing, two picks ahead of time, but still working on the present pick. It’s like air traffic control. You are being part of an air traffic control tower, sitting down. You pay for this, on top of the food being shown to you, on top of the very primal cooking techniques of wood fire.

All of that is part of the fine dining. I believe that people are not doubting or not being stingy when it comes to an experience, especially today’s diners. Whether it’s the younger crowd, they want an experience. They want to know the why. They want to feel different. They don’t just want to go to a restaurant; they want to feel those things. That’s how we start ideating BRUTØ.

Then, thinking about the soil. We work with Esoterra farms [Esoterra Culinary Garden]. No till. Most farmers would be like, “Why? What do you mean?” Mark is a genius. Mark at Esoterra farms is a wizard. I geek out every time I go and hang out with him. No till soil. Wait, what? He starts explaining about the micro-organisms and the health. I was like, “This guy gets it. These are the people we need to work with.”

Then talking to Kelly. When you look at our website, I remember when Kelly first presented the website. I was like, “Wait, what?” You should see the reddits on the website. It’s amazing! I love it.

Kirk Bachmann: I have it up right now. It’s insane. Am I at a restaurant? What am I looking at?

Byron Gomez: Teaming up with Kelly who worked with Wunder Werkz. Wunder Werkz is the one who designed the website and designed a lot of our digital stuff. They think outside the box. People are like, “What kind of a website is this?” We’re not just any restaurant. If you cannot get past a website to make a reservation how you typically do it, you might not understand what it is to sit at our counter. Not that we’re trying to be exclusive – not at all. We welcome everybody – but this is for an experience. How are we going to make those long-lasting experiences?

“Oh, this is just facing.” No. Then we’re talking about the soil, like I was mentioning. We’re talking about the over 700 acres of different farms that are practicing regenerative agriculture in southern Colorado. Where we’re taking grains, like the jammu right now, wheat flour, that we have for our bread, our piada. The bread has been rated in the New York Times. It’s bread! Every culture has a bread. Are restaurants going to stand out for their bread? Well, it comes from the sourcing. It comes from our responsibilities as the restaurant group, as visionaries, as chefs, to say, “How can we put more life into the soil instead of extracting it?” Because we have done that for so long. Humans mess up a lot of things. We do.

We’re thinking differently. We’re flipping things upside down. We’re lifting up rocks and looking underneath. We’re shining lights on things that people have not done before when it comes to fine dining, and that is all based out of that 18-chef seat counter. That comes from the vision and the partnership that Kelly and I have, that Erika, has bestowed with Id Est. That comes with Mara and her fermentation. That comes with Caroline and with how she sources out the wines, pretty much local wines. We’re talking about Willamette Valley. We’re talking about California. We’re talking about the Finger Lakes. People are like, “Oh, the tariffs.” Forget all that stuff. What are we producing here locally to lessen the carbon footprint that is going to help us out in the future?

That’s why I partner up and I use my platform to work together to say this message. That is a strong foundation that you can build upon. That’s what brutalism comes on, besides the aesthetics. That’s at the core of what we believe, what brutalism should be for future generations, for future restaurants, for future templates, for future business plans, things like that.

Zero Waste

Kirk Bachmann: I love it. What an answer! Oh my gosh. It just opened up a whole new window. Are you good on time? Are you okay on time, because I’ve got more.

I’m going to get to Mara in just a minute, but when I heard you talking about the experience, and Will Guidara from your past, one of the quotes I love in “Unreasonable Hospitality” is he talks about how service is what we do, what you do. Service. But hospitality…

Byron Gomez: Is how they feel.

Kirk Bachmann: Is how they feel. Right. Let’s talk a little bit about Mara. She’s your director of fermentation and sustainability. I’m wondering if you could, mostly for our students, walk us through your zero-waste philosophy. How do you achieve the full utilization of ingredients? It’s just fascinating.

Byron Gomez: We’ll do it in two parts.

About Mara: when I first met Mara, again, a person that gets it. Cool. Love that. Thinks differently. Thinks outside the box. We have done projects of curating bison hearts, bison being local from Colorado, a meat that’s not served in fine dining restaurants, but also puts money in the pocket of our rancher from Rock River Ranches, Rex. A meat that’s not popular. It’s my task as a chef to get creative and present that to a guest in a way that it’s going to be opening.

We started ideating. I want to shape a bison heart on top of local grains that we’ve got here in Colorado. We’re going to use plums from the summer that we are able to ferment and use them in the winter. We started with Japanese curing. We started with Scandinavian. Once those two or three months of curing this and marinating this bison heart worked out, now it’s another five to six months of dry aging. Once we get to the point, then it was two months of dehydration for a certain texture. We took almost a year just for one ingredient. We didn’t have the dish; we’re just working on the ingredients.

Throughout that, there were many failures. That’s where the grace of Mara and the vision comes. We just want instant gratification because we need to serve our guests, because we need to make money. I get all that. That’s part of the business. One hundred percent. We think about it like that. But Mara gave me that grace of [having] childhood curiosity. What can be done? What a privilege that I’m able at my age, my place, and my career that I have that! I’m not on autopilot. I’m still able to tap that. That’s the kind of team that we have around us.

Close to zero waste. We don’t want to say zero waste because that would be kind of impossible at this point. We’re figuring it out, but we’re as close to zero waste as possible. Right now we have a paneer dish. It’s a house-made paneer. We’ll make a lot of things in house. It’s a made paneer. I go to the farmers’ market in City Park on Saturdays. I get my yogurt and my milk from the farmer, bring it all on my wagon, bring it over to BRUTØ. We cook the milk up to 200 degrees, then we add our acidity, and then we strain it. We press it so we get paneer. The next day we cut it. That’s for one of the courses. What do we do with five gallons of whey? Okay.

We’re going to turn those five gallons of whey into a sauce for our main course that’s going to have ramps. Ramp season is a month, month and half. We don’t want to use it when everybody’s using it! You know when whales come up and you see the fish come out of the water just jumping? That’s how it feels with wild asparagus season. That’s how we feel with ramp season. Everybody wants it. We’re like, “Cool. You guys have your fun. You guys have your feeding frenzy. We’re going to do it later on.” So we pickle some of them. We dehydrated some of them so we’re able to feature it. Instead of spring, we’re able to bring that brutalist spring ingredient into the fall and into the winter from last year’s ramps.

Kirk Bachmann: I love that.

Byron Gomez: That’s how we ideate things. Again. Close to zero waste. From the frills of the ramps to the bulbs to the tops of the ramps, we use everything. A ramp powder goes into the whey sauce for our main course dish. Two ingredients already from fermentation and preservation. Then there’s only enough sauce that we need to make every three days. We have a three or four day rules for flipping certain ingredients. We still have about two gallons of this whey. What are we going to do with this whey?

Okay. Let’s reduce it down into a caramel. [That’s] a layup. Here’s something in your pantry that you can use from our by-byproduct. They reduce it down to make truffles, bonbons, caramels for the last bite situation, or your take-home bite. You could eat it the next day. You could eat it after dinner with Costa Rican chocolate, with coffee, with nuts. So we’re already taking one byproduct, and we’re cutting it down into three different presentations.

Kirk Bachmann: Amazing. That’s the critical thinking part that takes so long for a young student, a young culinarian, to fully understand. To step back a little bit and look at the broader picture from cradle to grave.

Byron Gomez: Let’s talk about culinary school. We’re talking about traditional dishes: coq au vin. Coq au vin is pretty much the most traditional dish in France. Talking about Escoffier school and all that. That was made from roosters that were so old, had no life in them, they had to soak in wine that they couldn’t sell that was almost turning into vinegar. Those enzymes would break down the protein.

Kirk Bachmann: The tough meat. Yeah.

Byron Gomez: Overcook it into a stew for hours with the root vegetables that you couldn’t sell because the winter was harsh and you needed that to feed your family. That’s the national dish! Coq au vin – out of scarcity, out of utilization of things that are not fine dining. Everything is fine dining. Food culture is fine dining, all these things. Why do we put so much value on certain things [over] others, certain inspirations. Why is Southeast Asian cuisine – Indian or Chinese – seen as less valuable than Western European cuisine? African cuisine compared to Costa Rican cuisine. We’re all eating. We all have sustained our societies throughout generations, decades, millennia. We’re trying to break all of that. We’re trying to crumble that, and we’re just trying to serve honest food that will help out the future.

A Bridge of Hospitality

Kirk Bachmann: My goodness! Auguste Escoffier would love to be on this show with us today because you espoused so many of the principles that he spoke of a hundred years ago.

Ironically enough – this is a true story – about five minutes before we got on today, dear friends of mine texted me and said, “Hey, our anniversary is September 21. Where should we go?” I’m like, “Duh! What do you mean where should you go?” They booked a night. They texted me as well asking about the menu. I said, “Well, there’s no menu that they’re going to hand you. This is very seasonal.”

I’m curious, with no printed menu, diners, guests, embark on this journey, this surprise that, to your point, reflects the sustainability efforts that your entire team – and by the way, I love how you throw out the love for your team, for Mara, for everyone. It’s the sign of the true professional, a true gentleman chef.

Byron Gomez: Thank you.

Kirk Bachmann: How do you, chef, balance this element of surprise – which is fun for you guys. It’s really fun. “Hey, look, we’re taking the whey,” all of these things. How are you educating the diners every step of the way?

Byron Gomez: Wow! We touch on it on every line up before service. “Okay guys. Our spiels are too long.” We keep each other accountable in the team. We talk about it. We are vulnerable. We recite the spiels before service because we all want to be ready and give each guest the best experience. It’s not like you get a piece of paper at the beginning in the menu, and we’re going to run the next four months with this menu. No. We work on each other internally each and every day. That becomes, sometimes, annoying for certain people. Well, we’re here to give experiences.

I tell people, we impact people’s lives twice before they walk into our door. One is when they make the reservation, it’s like booking a vacation. You don’t know how the vacation is going to turn out, but you’re like, “I’m excited to go to BRUTØ. Oh my God, they have an opening!” And then two, the day of, when they’re getting ready to come into BRUTØ. That’s beautiful that we’re able to do that. We’re just serving food! We’re just serving food! We’re able to give that experience.

We check on each other internally. We’re vulnerable with each other, keep each other accountable, and hold that integrity. Throughout that experience, we are able to tell how what guest can receive what. There are guests out there for business [who] didn’t want a lot of the spiel. Boom, give me this. That’s it. There are guests that are leaning over. They are just curious. It’s like the food and then the drink pairings. Oh my God! Autumn at the bar, and the drink pairings that we make, I could put our NA [non-alcholic] program next to any top NA program around the world, and we would absolutely crush it. I have that confidence and I know that.

Kirk Bachmann: Isn’t it amazing?

Byron Gomez: It really is.

Kirk Bachmann: That’s educating. That’s educating the public, the guests.

Byron Gomez: Unfortunately, we live in a society where we are so overstimulated with so much information that the information we don’t want to receive, we scroll [through]. We swipe or we scroll. It’s like the garbage bin on the computer, old school, where that little wrinkled piece of paper, welcome to the garbage bin. That’s how we are with our minds all day.

You come in to BRUTØ and we’re telling you. Cool. You’re not going to scroll. There’s no menu. You’re going to be like, “I’m freaking out!” Be present. Be human. Enjoy yourself. Disconnect. We’re going to take you to this journey in the two, two and a half hours that you’re here. The world will be waiting for you with all the turmoil, with everything that’s going on that you just want to keep on scrolling and clicking. Do that. it’s there for you. We’re not robbing you from that. We’re not telling you you’re not deserving of that. All we’re asking is to just enjoy yourself. Treat yourself. Love yourself. Care for yourself.

Let’s talk about how we’re caring for other people. How our farmers are highlighted in this, people you’re never going to meet the rest of your life, but there was that connection. We are the bridge. We are that concrete foundation. We are those beams that transfer all that information through experience, so on and so forth. It’s very educational. We are building a system, a program, that we could educate other restaurants, other institutions, schools, bring them in, teach them fermentation. We are working on those things. I’ve only been there coming up on two years. It’s been a lot of changes. Now that the foundation has been set of what our eleven courses are going to be, each dish tells a different story. But there’s also the weaving. Two dishes ago, here’s the main character. Here’s the sub-character. All of that weaving in the presentations, now we’re thinking about how we can bring our community more in so they don’t feel like they’re an outsider.

A Responsibility to Tell My Story

Kirk Bachmann: I just love the excitement and enthusiasm around the simple act of making a reservation. It’s like going to Broadway for a show. Give yourself some grace for a couple of hours so that you can experience it to the fullest.

I do want to mention before I forget that next week, the Grow House is hosting Harvest Nights: Denver-defining Culinary Gathering Celebrating local ingredients. That’s September 9, 10 and 11. You’re the presenting chef and the culinary curator. I want to make sure I get that in. Find it online, everybody.

Chef, your media presence is quite understandable. You’re eclectic. You’re a friend of the camera. You’re excited. You’ve been on Top Chef, a judge on Chopped. You’re on Food Network’s Hot List. I’m curious why – our how, I should say, being on television, being in front of everyone, sometimes you’re the person people are looking at on their stream. How is that influenced? I think I know the answer to this. I’m feeling it today. But how has it influenced your career and your ability to share your original message, your message of one degree better every single day? Your message of each one, teach one. Your message, as everyone hears the glory but they don’t know the story. And the most important message I’ve learned from you today is to enjoy the journey. How has your celebrity influenced your ability to share that message? Sorry. It’s a big question.

Byron Gomez: It is a good question. I’m trying to think. The two things that pop up into my mind is we have heard the saying, “Practice makes you perfect.” No. It makes you better. It makes you better. Hard work or working hard does not guarantee success. Not at all. It doesn’t. It gives you a better opportunity to be successful. Having a job at BRUTØ with the media, with my TV personality, celebrity chef, whatever you want to call it, with the branding, with the event activation like being the culinary curator for the Grow House – that’s hard. Waking up early in the morning. I have three meetings before I have to go to work today. That’s hard. Not having a job? That’s hard. Not having a job is hard as well. You choose your hard every day. I choose my hard every day.

Having this education of “Guys, here are the grains. Gluten free stuff, the protein on these grains is amazing, so you don’t have to worry about gluten free stuff. You can eat it. Don’t be afraid because they’ve been feeding you garbage. I get why you are scared. Coming into BRUTØ, you’re like ‘I’m gluten free.’ Trust me. That’s hard.” See how people are being affected by all this modification of food and how big companies are doing all these things. That’s hard, too. I choose my hard. Each and every day I wake up choosing my hard.

I know I have a responsibility to tell my story. What a privilege! What a privilege! Besides social media where everybody [is like] “I’m working out.” Or “I’m running.” Most people don’t care. Let’s be honest; most people do not care. How many of my – I don’t even know how many followers I have. That sounds so arrogant. I’m so sorry. I don’t mean to. How many of those people actually really care what I’m doing? Or actually are my friends? Not many. But I still have a responsibility to leave this place a better one than when I came. I’m taking that responsibility. I’m not Superman. I’m not. I have my flaws. People say the system is against me. I am fighting the system. I think that sounds like being alive. We figure it out every day. Tomorrow will come with its own worries.

I have a strong foundation. I’m coming up on two years sober. That has been a life-changing situation for me. Mentally, physically, spiritually, my soul, how I live my life intentionally. I have my morning routines where I meditate. The world with scrolling emails, text messages, phone calls. When is the time for me? As soon as I wake up, I say my prayers, my meditation. I’m grateful for the things that I have and the things that will come. I don’t worry about the things that I don’t have because that’s when things really start spiraling down. I’ve been down that road. I was able to save myself from myself with something real, my addiction. Life looked very different two or three years ago. In front of the camera, it looked all glamorous, but deep down inside of me, I was dying, dealing with mental issues, dealing with addictions. In this industry, it’s an off the cuff response. “Oh, it’s hard.” This and that. Any industry is hard. This world right now is hard. What am I doing to sustain myself, to sustain my community, to sustain the people around me.

All of that, it’s an every day type of thing. I get the privilege to live today. I have an honor to say hi to somebody today. Most people don’t have that. Most people are in hospital beds. I’m six feet above; I’m not six feet under. God! Thank you! Thank you for this opportunity. Let’s make today better. It’s going to be a hell of a ride because I have no idea what’s going to happen at twelve o’clock. I have an agenda, but that’s not up to me to control. I could control how I show up to live life. I’m grateful to manage all these things. I have people on my team, people like the whole ID EST team. People who work on my personal brand. I, myself, put my family, my true friends, my fiance, all those people are really there for me. I don’t need those hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram. I don’t even know, whatever it is. I need to surround myself with people who are really caring for me and what I think and what I do.

Kirk Bachmann: Can I just say from a very personal perspective – my wife is going to be so excited tonight when I come home. We have to – and when I say “we,” [I mean] many of us have to hear your words once in a while. I’m as guilty as anyone. What’s the first thing I do when I wake up? I don’t stretch. I may stretch for my phone. What happened overnight? That kind of thing. We do have to give ourselves grace. We have to enjoy the ride a little bit. I just want to thank you for that perspective, that vulnerable perspective. It’s not on the script, everyone. By the way, you have almost 50,000 followers on Instagram. FYI! Just so you know. Okay. Just so you know.

Two quick questions for you. I’ve taken so much of your time.

Byron Gomez: Oh, no, it’s fine.

Work Toward Better, but Give Yourself Grace

Kirk Bachmann: It’s been a joy. I keep texting Noelle. “Could we just go for three hours? This is insane.” Chef, this is a tough one. It’s a cliché kind of question, but I’m almost compelled to ask. If you had to give any advice to Ethan or a culinary student, or just someone who loves to cook and perhaps is trying to find their voice in this industry – or maybe a parent who is trying to find their voice, or a carpenter who is trying to find their voice? What would that advice be? Very broad. High level.

Byron Gomez: So many things just popped into my head, especially when you threw in the carpenter or parent.

Kirk Bachmann: Because everything’s tough, right? Everyone. Carpenters, that’s a craft, to be somebody who does something for other people. That’s a craft.

Byron Gomez: I will say let’s start with ourselves. Not even what we’re trying to do for others. Give yourself grace. Just give yourself grace. Life is not asking you to have it all figured out. We are. Other people tell us we need to have it figured out by this age. We need to have this thing. We need to have this cabinet ready because of the client. Yeah. I get those deadlines, but you’re going to build better cabinets if you keep on building these cabinets. You’re going to build better ones next year. Each year from now it’s going to be totally different. Ten years from now, you’re going to not only be a cabinet builder; you’re going to be a business owner. Now you’re going to miss building cabinets. Now you’re going to be managing people.

For Ethan, for that parent, there’s no blueprint to this thing called life. We literally have the stencil and the paper that we could just draw in ourselves. Oh, you don’t like my blueprint? Go see this architect over there. Go work with them. This is my masterpiece. There’s no right or wrong with that.

Parenting, yes, we take advice from other parents, but let’s be honest: who is the most freaking perfect parent? There’s no social class, there is no background. We are all trying to figure it out. If you were to ask me at my age – I’m 37 – my parents left around this age when they came here to this country. If you asked me, “Hey, you’re going to move to another country and you’re going to start from scratch. You’re going to be starting from the bottom. On top of that, you’re going to have a culture that you don’t know. On top of that, you’re going to have a language that you don’t know. And you need to survive. And you need to raise a family.” God, did they have it figured out! And I was so judgmental growing up! I don’t have a car. I’m sixteen, I don’t have my permit. Why do we live in this neighborhood? Why do we have to buy knockoff, [prices] from vegetables instead of going to a Whole Foods? They were trying their best.

I think if you’re able to put some clothes on each morning, whether you’re an addict, whether you’re a parent, whether you’re a culinary student, and you go out there, head held up high, and you’re like, “I’m going to try to be better today,” I think that’s so commendable. It’s not a sprint. It’s a marathon. It’s called life. Enjoy a cup of water in that marathon that people are handing over to you. Enjoy. Give yourself grace. That cheer. “Good job!” “Thank you.” Instead of “no, I could do better.” Dude, have grace. Thank you. Thank you for that.

From a person that was an addict that relapsed. Seek help. You’re going to get better. “Man, I don’t know how to deal with my 13-year-old kid, the mood swings. It’s like they’re bipolar.” They’re also trying to figure it out. It’s two people trying to figure it out. The disconnection between when he was five or she was five. I’m in my late 20s now, my mid-30s. We evolve. They are already talking about we’re going to have some 90-degree weather this week, and there’s going to be snow in a month. The seasons change so drastically.

Kirk Bachmann: Especially in Colorado.

Byron Gomez: Yeah. Micro-climate. We are so complex as humans that we think we need to have it figured all out. Draw your own sketch. Sketch your own blueprint. Seek out your own paper. The tip of that pen or pencil is up to however you want it to be, whatever color you want it to be. Be nice to each other. We’ll get there, whatever that is. We don’t even know what that is! We don’t even know what the goal is most times.

Ultimate Dishes for the Taste Buds and the Soul

Kirk Bachmann: But we’ll know when we get there. We’ll know when we get there. Great advice. I can’t wait until you’re on the campus, or online. We’ll do it for all of our students.

Chef, the name of our little show here is called The Ultimate Dish. I try to finish every episode. This could be a memory. I’ve had it all. I’ve had people give me eleven courses. I’ve had people talk about how inspirational it is to sit around the table with their family. In your mind, what is the ultimate dish?

Byron Gomez: One is going to be for my taste buds; the other one is going to be for my soul.

Kirk Bachmann: Oh, I love this.

Byron Gomez: The first thing that you experience and then once you feed your soul, it’s like oh wow.

It would have to be fresh made white rice with scallions and ginger chopped up.

Kirk Bachmann: Can you taste it? I can taste it!

Byron Gomez: A little bit of soy sauce just to wet the rice, and two fried eggs. There is just something so magical about the binding of the egg yolk when you break it into the white rice, and it binds it. It gives you that silky yet rich. There’s nothing that compares in the world with that.

Kirk Bachmann: My gosh. Guess what I’m having for dinner tonight! Here’s what’s really cool about it. If you look at the transcript of our chat, of course that’s what you’re going to say. It’s this unbelievably simple [dish.] It’s not complex, but you could almost taste it when you said it. Rice is not…I always tell students, “What should I focus on? How to cut a lobe of foie gras?” I’m like, “Just make rice really, really well. Just make rice really, really, really well.” Escoffier would be proud.

Byron Gomez: And then the second one.

Kirk Bachmann: For your soul.

Byron Gomez: My mom’s pigs’ feet stew.

Kirk Bachmann: Really?

Byron Gomez: She came over a couple of weeks ago. On the last day, my parents’ flight got delayed. It got postponed because of weather. We came here. I just asked for one thing. “I’ve taken you guys to Breckenridge. I’ve taken you guys to BRUTØ. I’ve dined you, wined you, given you the tour of the topography. I just want your pigs’ feet stew, Costa Rican pigs’ feet stew.” My mom’s pigs’ feet stew with white rice. I ate three bowls of that. There is something about growing up low income. My mom taking end cuts that are not popular and making them delicious. It brought me back to that.

Where my mom nowadays has the audacity to tell me, “I’m embarrassed to cook for you.”

I’m like, “You’ve raised me.”

She’s like, “Yeah, but with…” You know, she’s my biggest fan. It’s funny when she takes the screen shots when I’m on television and sends them over to me like a fangirl. “Mom!?! Seriously?”

Kirk Bachmann: Of course. Of course. I love it. I love it.

But it’s not terribly different from the coq au vin that you mentioned earlier, or duck confit or anything like that. I have one more question: do you get back to Costa Rica much?

Byron Gomez: Last time I was in Costa Rica was March 1997.

Kirk Bachmann: Oh wow. Okay.

Byron Gomez: Because of my immigration status here, I’m not able to go. When the news came out about Michelin, one of the first interviews was like the Diane Sawyer for Costa Rica. She interviewed me. She has a morning show. She came in at night. She was like, “Don’t worry. I’m here just to make a national announcement. Everything is okay, but we have some big news. Our first Costa Rican chef who has a Michelin star through BRUTØ.” It became national news to the point that Juliana, my PR, was like, “Dude, you’ve become a national thing. We need to get you out there!” And then the election happened. My lawyer was like, “Maybe let’s hold off because we don’t know how this is going to play out.”

But that is one of my biggest desires is to be able to celebrate with my people. Being able to celebrate. But, again, the imposter syndrome. Do I cook Costa Rican food good enough for Costa Ricans? A country that I’ve only been cooking some of the dishes that we have at BRUTØ like morcilla, the blood sausage. We’re going to introduce yuca, manioc, or cassava roots, things like that. Banana and fish from the Talamanca region of the Bribri people of Costa Rica. These are only through me reading, calling other friends, trying to honor those ingredients, those techniques. Presenting it at BRUTØ, but yet I feel like I’m from over there, but I’m not from over there. I’m from here, but yet I’m not from here. Where am I from?

I’m from the place that I want to be. I am from the place that I could express myself in our kitchens. I have traveled the world through food. There’s no system. There’s no timing. There’s nothing that can take that away from me. Food has been the biggest memory, the biggest liberating thing. It is the one thing that brings people together. You don’t have to speak the same language. Sports don’t do that. Food does that. What a powerful thing! We are ambassadors of that.

Kirk Bachmann: Ambassadors. Ambassadors of cuisine around the world. And you’re giving yourself grace. I’m proud of you for that. I sense – and what do I know – but I sense that your people are with you. I don’t think you have to worry about that.

Chef, this has been absolutely spectacular. I’m going to get in trouble because I kept you way too long. What a beautiful conversation! I’m going to reach out to your people and connect, and see if we can get you out to the campus. We’ll have so much fun. We’ll cook for you. Students will have a lot of questions.

Byron Gomez: Thank you.

Kirk Bachmann: Of course. Of course. I’ll probably be reaching out for my friends to come sit at the counter with you.

Byron Gomez: Please let me know.

Kirk Bachmann: Absolutely. Gosh. I feel like I want to hug you and say thank you. Congratulations on your fiance’s plans and all the success. I can’t wait to text Kelly. I took a picture of us, so I’ll shoot him and Erika a little note.

Thank you so much. Best of luck always.

Byron Gomez: Thank you guys.

Kirk Bachmann: Thank you for listening to the Ultimate Dish podcast, brought to you by Auguste Escoffier School of Culinary Arts. Visit escoffier.edu/podcast to find any materials mentioned during the podcast, including notes, links and other resources. And if you can, please leave us a rating on Apple or Spotify, and subscribe to support our show. This helps us reach more aspiring individuals ready to take the next step toward their dream careers. Thanks for listening.